Veronica catenata?
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Bitte immer den Fundort (Land, Stadt, Habitat etc.) und das Funddatum angeben. TIPP: Je mehr Detailbilder ihr von einer Pflanze zeigt, also zum Beispiel Gesamtaufnahme der Pflanze, Blatt + Blüte von oben und unten, Stängel unten + oben, Früchte oder weiteres, desto größer ist der Bestimmungserfolg im Forum.
Bitte immer den Fundort (Land, Stadt, Habitat etc.) und das Funddatum angeben. TIPP: Je mehr Detailbilder ihr von einer Pflanze zeigt, also zum Beispiel Gesamtaufnahme der Pflanze, Blatt + Blüte von oben und unten, Stängel unten + oben, Früchte oder weiteres, desto größer ist der Bestimmungserfolg im Forum.
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Anagallis
- Unfreundlicher Muffkopf
- Beiträge: 2971
- Registriert: Mi Jun 22, 2022 7:54 pm
- Wohnort: Enzkreis, an der Grenze zum Landkreis Karlsruhe
Re: Veronica catenata?
Wir waren heute dort und haben Belege gesammlt. Die Pflanzen sind ziemlich uneindeutig. Wir schicken sie nach Tschechien zur Nachbestimmung.
Dominik
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Kraichgauer
- Beiträge: 1926
- Registriert: Mi Jun 22, 2022 10:18 pm
- Wohnort: Bruchsal
Re: Veronica catenata?
Bob Travnicek kommentiert wie folgt:
"My impression of your photos:
population perhaps falls in as a product of hybridization between V. a.-a. and V. catenata in the past, maybe there was a type of hybridization where partial fertility was preserved in the hybrid and it is now independent of the parents. I have already observed something similar in 1-2 populations that look like a hybrid between V. a.-a. and V. "catenatoides", although this hybrid is usually sterile as well.
I don't expect hybridization between V. catenata and V. "catenatoides", the color of the flower and the shape of the leaves do not match (the shape of the leaves is in this case clearly influenced by the species V. a.-a., i.e. the leaves are not widest at the base as V. catenata and + /- also V. "catenatoides").
The second possibility is V. a.-a., which acquired the ability to form glands by mutation, I cannot exclude this possibility, even if the flower color for "pure" V. a.-a. doesn't fit either.
If you send the material, we can try flow cytometers, but they probably won't detect anything (all these Veronicas tend to be tetraploid, except for V. anagalloides, but this taxon I can exclude - the capsules are too wide). Later, we want to try molecular methods - they could already reveal whether it is the mentioned hybrid or just glandular V. a.-a. (but, I've never seen anything like that before)."
Gruß Michael
"My impression of your photos:
population perhaps falls in as a product of hybridization between V. a.-a. and V. catenata in the past, maybe there was a type of hybridization where partial fertility was preserved in the hybrid and it is now independent of the parents. I have already observed something similar in 1-2 populations that look like a hybrid between V. a.-a. and V. "catenatoides", although this hybrid is usually sterile as well.
I don't expect hybridization between V. catenata and V. "catenatoides", the color of the flower and the shape of the leaves do not match (the shape of the leaves is in this case clearly influenced by the species V. a.-a., i.e. the leaves are not widest at the base as V. catenata and + /- also V. "catenatoides").
The second possibility is V. a.-a., which acquired the ability to form glands by mutation, I cannot exclude this possibility, even if the flower color for "pure" V. a.-a. doesn't fit either.
If you send the material, we can try flow cytometers, but they probably won't detect anything (all these Veronicas tend to be tetraploid, except for V. anagalloides, but this taxon I can exclude - the capsules are too wide). Later, we want to try molecular methods - they could already reveal whether it is the mentioned hybrid or just glandular V. a.-a. (but, I've never seen anything like that before)."
Gruß Michael